Nathan Natas

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Posts by Nathan Natas

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  49

  The List, by "Prominent Bethelite"

  by morloc in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i occasionally pop through here to catch up on the latest, but this time i'm going to pop my own post on here.. some of you internet oldsters may even remember this.

  my first experience on the internet regarding discussions about jehovah's witnesses and the watchtower took place on a now-obscure usenet group, before i eventually stumbled across hourglass2.. during those days, there was a poster who went by the name "prominent bethelite," an otherwise anonymous individual whom i remember most for an extensive, exhaustive compilation of date-oriented remarks, predictions, and expectations by the watchtower organization down through the decades of its history.. it became known as "the list" and it's definitely lengthy... but a fascination look at the abundance of errant statements made through the watchtower's history.. if you're curious, it's been available for a long time on hourglass2's site, and can be seen using the link provided below.. the list, compiled by prominent bethelite (1999).

  that's about it for this stop through here.

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  Nathan Natas

  THANK YOU! I had never heard of this before, it's a nice resource to have.
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  50

  Ray Franz - is he REALLY a hero?

  by baltar447 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  on one hand, he's enlightnened many to the internal circle jerk that is the governing body (circa the 70s).. but if there's one reason that can be pointed to for the jws becoming full on cult, it's ray franz.

  without him leaving in the manner he did, and stirring the pot, they might not have change the rule (retroatively i might add) on shunning of disassociated ones.

  they specifically changed that so they could remove him and eliminate his influence.. his actions single handedly have created the situation where we have to fade, evade, leave marriages, say goodbye to family, just because we don't buy the jw bullsh!t anymore.

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  Nathan Natas

  I'm not a "Fan of Franz" for my own reasons, but I think that in addition to being completely incorrect about when disfellowshipping began in the WTB&TS, you are also making a mistake by blaming Franz for actions taken by the WTB&TS. Generally speaking it is "he who done the deed" who bears resnsibility for it.

  Franz is also not the reason the Beatles broke up.
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  42

  Well, what can you say???? I am speechless.

  by DATA-DOG in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  exhibit a:.

  awake!

  "if you are a young person, you also need to face the fact that you will never grow old in this present system of things.

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  Nathan Natas

  I agree with mrquik; I feel pretty bad now, I can't imagine how much worse I'd feel if I was getting older too...
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  32

  My wife is never going to wake up.

  by marriedtoajw in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  what do you do when you believe in your heart that your spouse is never going to wake up to the tatt?

  when you're sick of the cherade of pretending you can deal with the spiritual division when you dont think you can anymore.

  when you're convinced that your spouse is so decieved she is lost in a desert and is fine with living by the mirage.

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  Nathan Natas

  Hi marriedtoajw,

  The truth is that you can't save anybody else until you save yourself.

  Right now it is almost like you want them to wake up so that YOU feel better.

  I can appreciate the way this pains you, and I will admit that I personally have not gone through anything like this.

  People who survive calamities sometimes - maybe often - suffer "survivor's guilt." It might help if you can discuss your feelings with a psychologist who has some training or experience in PTSD or cult deprogramming. There's not much point in talking to a counselor who is looking at you as though you were something he's never seen before.

  I *did* have the experience of having a psychiatrist FALL ASLEEP while I was blathering away. In a way, even that helped me a little; more than any of the meds ever did! Ever notice that many times the side effects of the popular psychiatric meds is to make the patient depressed, fat and disengaged? try to resist meds if you can.

  On the other hand, don't refuse the meds - they might help. Keep a diary (it can be encrypted on your computer if you have problems with family snoops) and record how you're feeling and what you're thinking each day... not a "stream-of-consciousness" monologue; that would take 24x7x365 - just a summary of major themes so you can review them from time-to-time too SEE if there has been some improvement. It's too easy to trick yourself into thinking that the wqay you feel now is the way you've "always felt."

  Find comfort in the knowledge that others have freed themselves and you can too. Then you will be an example to your family.
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  35

  Don't You Think It's Odd That "Jehovah" Was Invented By A Catholic Monk?...

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  and that jehovah's witnesses are proud to use that name?.

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  Nathan Natas

  HowTheBibleWasCreated pointed out, "He was Married to Asherah (Sacred Pole)"

  Lithuanians can't get a break...
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  35

  Don't You Think It's Odd That "Jehovah" Was Invented By A Catholic Monk?...

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  and that jehovah's witnesses are proud to use that name?.

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  Nathan Natas

  How about the additional FACT that The Watchtower used the SAME 66-book Bible that was "approved" by Protestant Christendom?

  Was King James a Dub?
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  19

  Awful experience: I threw my WT library out!

  by StephaneLaliberte in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  yes, i threw my wt library out: my recycle bin was full.

  even if i had imagined this experience to be similar to a prisoner getting rid of his chains, this was not so.. instead, it brought up all the memories i had shared with my family where we were excited about the release of the revelation book; the clear feeling of ultimate knowledge when we showed the live forever book, the questions i had practiced with my family in the organized book, my cousins who got baptized as well.

  somehow, all i could think of was only the good memories i had shared with my family and almost cried about it.. and then, i started to think of the division, the hatred and the pain that became prevalent in my family as some were disfellowshipped and thus, ostracized.

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  Nathan Natas

  ecan6 asked, "How can they not be afraid of the God they claim to serve?"

  They must KNOW something that you (the world at large) do NOT KNOW, and it is that "Jehovah" is a sock-puppet, crudely fashioned from the cheapest material and with the poorest possible degree of craftsmanship; a SCARECROW of old clothing stuffed with straw and infested with vermin, a balloon-animal swiftly created by a carnival clown and filled with HOT AIR.

  Look carefully; when "Jehovah" speaks, you can see the ventriloquist's lips moving!
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  12

  ANOTHER poke in the eye of the balloon-god YodHeVahHe

  by Nathan Natas in

  1. social
  2. current

  http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/next/evolution/first-metabolic-processes-detected-outside-of-cells/.

  precis: a graduate student at the university of cambridge accidentally discovered the first evidence of metabolism occurring outside a cell.

  to test the processes that could have helped spark life on earth, students in the earth sciences department who had been working on reconstructing the chemistry of the archean ocean, which covered the planet almost 4 billion years ago helped develop some experiments.

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  Nathan Natas

  VillageGirl asked, "Nathan : Why do think this disproves the existance of higher intelligence?"

  It is called "the preponderance of evidence."

  In the 18th century and earlier, most scientists held that the Bible was the inspired word of God and they would make way for popes and priests to spout their imaginings of "things Divine" as though the popes and priests were accurately reporting the features of an undiscovered country to which only popes and priests had access. The underlying presumption was that as man's knowledge grew, so would his conviction that there was an Author of All Creation who only asked that we worship Him.

  But things didn't work out that way, did they? As man investigated the universe, at each level, instead of finding signposts that said, "This way to God; Worship Him," evidence accumulated to show that "No GOD need apply here."

  No doubt about it, we've developed some nifty tools. We can examine and manipulate individual atoms, and we can peer futher and further back into time. Many marvelous and astonishing things remain to be discovered: tomorrow, next week, a year from now, a century from now.

  And nowhere will there be a sign that says, "This way to God."

  There is no Creator, there is no spirit realm, complete with all the fixings. Shit happens, and this shit is it.

  Enjoy your imaginitive flights of fancy about God, but remember that you have no evidence at all for it, only "what-ifs" and "maybes".

  WHICH of the ten thousand things called "God" is the right one?

  That's a trick question; the correct answer is NONE.

  Popes and priests and other god-hustlers are only saying what the mooing herd wants to hear. They are parasites and suck life out of mankind.
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  27

  The new and improved Watchtower...

  by tenyearsafter in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i just saw my first watchtower magazine in about 15 years...it was tucked under my doormat.

  all i can say is wow!

  i was shocked at how small and flimsy it was.

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  Nathan Natas

  Hmmm...

  I was hoping you were going to say they were switching to a paper that was much more flammable than previously. Nitrocellulose would be a GREAT medium fot the magazines and the CDs. Every day would be the fourth of July!
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  77

  What is this new Announcement to take place in August?

  by Quarterback in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  just heard from an elder.

  he told me that there is another change to be announced in august.

  he didn't know more about it.. any other info?.

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  Nathan Natas

  88JM said, " I seem to remember a thread on here about a month ago with someone who had a "friend in high places" who also said there were even bigger changes coming, but not until after the annual meeting?"

  Ha! Yeah, "Cosmic Reshuffling" is coming, but first this word from our sponsor."

  What a bunch a wankers!